Social Security Disability Facts Forum

The Physical Side of Disability => The Physical Side of Disability => Topic started by: howdidIgethere on May 26, 2022, 08:45:52 am

Title: I cannot determine the best place to put this
Post by: howdidIgethere on May 26, 2022, 08:45:52 am
I'm not sure how to begin. The events at the SS office yesterday and then on the phone with the manager left me shaking for hours. I barely slept last night.

Where can one get proper professional response from SSA to a complaint?

I tried talking on the phone to someone I was told was the office manager and only got more manipulation and abuse as if I am a stupid child who did not understand how she was sidestepping my questions and handling me. When I spoke louder to get what I was saying said over her interrupting me she accused me as if I were the one being awful! When did it become OK for Civil Servants to be that openly dishonest with people?
Big Brother would be proud.
Title: Re: I cannot determine the best place to put this
Post by: Just Me on May 26, 2022, 01:49:21 pm
The process can be difficult to explain and to understand. If you will share what you are trying to get help with. Someone here might be able to help. Several of our members are retired SSA employees.
Title: Re: I cannot determine the best place to put this
Post by: howdidIgethere on May 26, 2022, 05:41:02 pm

Where does one file a complaint to get a professional response?

I do not see how there can be anything difficult to explain there.

The problem if you would like to know is almost exactly what you have done here.
Title: Re: I cannot determine the best place to put this
Post by: newdawn on May 26, 2022, 07:42:24 pm
I'm not sure how to begin. The events at the SS office yesterday and then on the phone with the manager left me shaking for hours. I barely slept last night.

Where can one get proper professional response from SSA to a complaint?

I tried talking on the phone to someone I was told was the office manager and only got more manipulation and abuse as if I am a stupid child who did not understand how she was sidestepping my questions and handling me. When I spoke louder to get what I was saying said over her interrupting me she accused me as if I were the one being awful! When did it become OK for Civil Servants to be that openly dishonest with people?
Big Brother would be proud.


Where does one file a complaint to get a professional response?

I do not see how there can be anything difficult to explain there.

The problem if you would like to know is almost exactly what you have done here.

To be fair, I think it might depend to some extent on your complaint and what response (result) you want/expect. For example, the OIG is usually the place to report waste, fraud, and certain kinds of abuse*. There's also a specific process if you're alleging discrimination/unfair treatment in the hearing (OHO/ALJ) process. Just a couple of examples.

From your original post, I couldn't tell if you have a complaint/issue you need resolved by someone higher up/different than the local office manager (i.e. the local office has not been able to resolve your question or issue) or if you just want to report receiving poor customer service, being treated disrespectfully, etc. by your local office.

In any case, we have one member who used to work on the front lines and maybe they'll weigh in.

If not, all I could conjure up via google this evening was that you could:

1. Write a complaint letter to your local office.

2. Write to the national office of the SSA, detailing your complaint:

Social Security Administration
Office of Public Inquiries
1100 West High Rise
6401 Security Blvd.
Baltimore, MD 21235

3. Contact your elected representatives in Congress.

This was not exactly from the most reliable internet source so not sure if your complaint will go into a black hole if you follow routes #1 or #2.

Route #3 can sometimes be helpful in certain situations...like if you are trying to get info from or something done at the local office or payment center and are experiencing roadblocks.

It's your personal business, but that's my generic advice...if you don't want to continue trying to communicate/work with reps at your local SSA office.

Sorry I can't come up with anything more. Perhaps someone else more knowledgeable will weigh in.
 
*For example, "Standards of Conduct Violations. Public Service is a public trust. All SSA employees are bound by the Standards of Ethical Conduct for Employees of the Executive Branch. Examples of conduct violations include:
*Accepting gifts and/or money from a person doing business with SSA
*Holding financial interests that conflict with official duties
*Not obeying any federal, state, or local laws or regulations."

https://oig.ssa.gov/fraud-reporting/standards-of-conduct/
https://oig.ssa.gov/fraud-reporting/what-is-fraud-waste-abuse/

Can't imagine the above applies to you but who knows.
Title: Re: I cannot determine the best place to put this
Post by: howdidIgethere on May 27, 2022, 06:30:42 am
I am frustrated by these passive aggressive responses.

My original post while partly editorial and venting is crystal clear.
The idea that I should be trapped by the "local office" concept is flat out communist.
The fact that it is clear they are at least the source of the problem makes me wonder about the responses I have gotten. Do you realise what assumptions you have made about me? The one well known fact and good thing about America is that you can go to a different office of the same agency to overcome problems with staff who are prejudiced against you for whatever reason.

I need to speak to someone who isn't going to passive aggressively try to force me into submission to their will even if they do not know that is what they are doing.
Everyone wants that, even if they don't know that when some person they deal with for help responding by asking what they are trying to do instead of answering their question, is passive aggressively intended to groom/force them into being passive subjects and block off paths to a solution they might find by getting answers. It is intended to restrict you, not help you.


There cannot be any confusion here. What I have asked for is clear.
How is it possible that anyone is seeing anything else?
Title: Re: I cannot determine the best place to put this
Post by: howdidIgethere on May 27, 2022, 06:37:16 am
It goes without saying but thank you for taking the time to respond.
Title: Re: I cannot determine the best place to put this
Post by: newdawn on May 27, 2022, 10:25:22 am
I am frustrated by these passive aggressive responses.

My original post while partly editorial and venting is crystal clear.
The idea that I should be trapped by the "local office" concept is flat out communist.
The fact that it is clear they are at least the source of the problem makes me wonder about the responses I have gotten. Do you realise what assumptions you have made about me? The one well known fact and good thing about America is that you can go to a different office of the same agency to overcome problems with staff who are prejudiced against you for whatever reason.

I need to speak to someone who isn't going to passive aggressively try to force me into submission to their will even if they do not know that is what they are doing.
Everyone wants that, even if they don't know that when some person they deal with for help responding by asking what they are trying to do instead of answering their question, is passive aggressively intended to groom/force them into being passive subjects and block off paths to a solution they might find by getting answers. It is intended to restrict you, not help you.


There cannot be any confusion here. What I have asked for is clear.
How is it possible that anyone is seeing anything else?

My response was not intended to come across as passive aggressive so I'm sorry if it reads that way. I will stay out of this thread in future since I don't have anything else I think could be helpful to add.
Title: Re: I cannot determine the best place to put this
Post by: Rosesrred on May 27, 2022, 10:33:48 am
I think you are coming on way to strong here. Not everyone has the answers you need them to be at the time you want it.  Its a forum. You can ask things but it doesn't mean the people that are on this board are experts.

Kindness goes a long way.
Title: Re: I cannot determine the best place to put this
Post by: heyjoe on May 27, 2022, 10:50:14 am
Based on your tone and demands here with people who aren't being paid to take your aggressiveness and abuse, it's not too hard to understand why you are having a problem at your local social security office
Title: Re: I cannot determine the best place to put this
Post by: howdidIgethere on May 30, 2022, 08:36:48 am
I am not aggressive.

My question is clear. The replies are also clearly not responsive to it.
That is not aggression, that is the truth.

Title: Re: I cannot determine the best place to put this
Post by: heyjoe on May 30, 2022, 10:59:52 am
I am not aggressive.

My question is clear. The replies are also clearly not responsive to it.
That is not aggression, that is the truth.
.

you are telling people who are doing their best to help you here, who have no ulterior motive except to help and pass on knowledge that they may have, that their responses are passive aggressive. Whatever that means in this context. The problem is you, not everyone else.
Title: Re: I cannot determine the best place to put this
Post by: BRBB on May 30, 2022, 06:30:53 pm
Since any response I could possibly think of would be met with derision by the OP, I'll only offer the folliwing suggestions for you to try:

1. Ouiji board
2. Magic 8-ball

Best wishes,
BRBB
Philip
Title: Re: I cannot determine the best place to put this
Post by: SteelCity1981 on May 30, 2022, 11:58:17 pm
I am not aggressive.

My question is clear. The replies are also clearly not responsive to it.
That is not aggression, that is the truth.
Well if you weren't then it surely came across that way. You're telling people who are trying to do their best to help you, that they are being passive aggressive to your question. Then when they try to ask you to go into further detail, you tell them you made yourself crystal clear the first time. Newdawn, provided an excellent response to your question by going into detail on who to contact to file a complaint, there was nothing passive aggressive about it. Furthermore, the term you accused them of being ''passive aggressive'' is not the correct term. Seeing as they showed zero indirect aggression to your question. Like others have said, they don't get paid for this. the mods like with others come on here to help people out of the kindness of their hearts, they get nothing from coming to these forums. I for one am very thankful to have a forum like this, because there are highly knowledgeable people on here that know a lot about the SSA disability process, that have helped a lot of people with their disability questions, that otherwise would have never gotten answered.
Title: Re: I cannot determine the best place to put this
Post by: MisplacedTexan on May 31, 2022, 12:02:37 am
I have been a member here since 2010 and over the years there have sadly been a few members that attack the advice they are given and those giving it. They usually stop posting after a short time and are never heard from again. I will venture to say if they manage to get to an alj hearing I doubt they were awarded benefits if they took an adversarial tone with the alj. In fact I suspect if they hired an attorney for the hearing I would venture the attorney withdrew before the hearing because they get paid only if a claimant is awarded benefits. They get nothing if the case is denied.

With one exception I am aware of a few years ago. I personally believe that all the current active posters genuinely try to help those asking for advice. Sometimes the truth hurts and we need to hear things that are given from a different point of view than our own. Sugar coating things is not helpful when clearly some peoples demeanor is their own worst enemy.  If I have a problem and I asked for advice and it was clear that I was the source of my own problem telling me everything is sugar and sunshine is not going to help me at all. The  thread responses have given good advice to  howdidigethere. If they disagree then their really is nothing further we can do to help.
Title: Re: I cannot determine the best place to put this
Post by: howdidIgethere on June 01, 2022, 10:17:05 am
"the problem' is something I am sensitive too. Namely not addressing what I say directly. The Staff at SSA do this to me.
They pretend to be nice and do the formalities and as soon as I start saying my piece they interrupt and try to take control. If I manage to ask a question the response is diversion or proclamation they refuse to explain. In person or on the phone.
I'm shaking again as I try to explain here. You have no idea how demeaning it is to be ignored and treated as if you are a child.
Last year by phone was perfect. this year several phone calls and two in person trips were not.

Last year I called. Said I need X doc for this year and provided a BNC number. The guy was nice happy and looked it up said OK and I'll send that out today. I had it in two days.
This year the phone system was sending me to workers at home who would not let me give them the BNC number and claimed they could not reproduce the document. Finally one guy said he would send me what he could produce and it never showed up after several weeks. I went down in person after I found out they had opened and got a copy of the doc. The people who wanted it sent it back with a copy of last years form and told me they wanted it to be exactly like the one I submitted last year. They are a separate issue as they accepted the form they rejected a few years ago. Anyway I went back the other day when I posted and the man was at first nice, looked over the paper I had said OK and then gave me an entirely different doc with the one line inserted into it. I told him that was not what I needed and he said tough get out. I was baffled. I stood there and told him I needed the other doc and he said something as he lurched his upper body at me that was muffled by his mask i could only hear "federal government". I told him I wanted to see his supervisor and he claimed they were not there.  I asked him what he said and he dismissed me. It seemed like some Qanon bs to me. I got him and called the office to speak to the office manager. I was eventually put through to her. I told her he said she was out and she was not there and she said "I stepped out for a bit" so I asked what time and she would not say. Then I tried to explain to her what happened and she just kept interrupting me before I could make any complete points. So of course me being normal I'm getting upset and my voice is rising. So she starts to threaten me about my voice rising. This is like almost ten minutes in and I have yet to be able to tell her anything because of how effectively she is manipulating me. I finally told her she was deliberately causing me to get angry to prevent the conversation I was trying to have with her from taking place and hung up.
That is the problem. There is a nutter in there who may or may not go postal on them and the manager and that one staffer at least seem entirely uninterested in being of assistance to me. Looking back it seems like an episode of Yes Minister. Except this was real and not funny at all to me.

Shaking like hell again. Still not sleeping right either.
 
Title: Re: I cannot determine the best place to put this
Post by: starfishman! on June 01, 2022, 11:08:05 am
Now I see your points but sorry I can't help. I also don't know what you mean by Qanon and I have never heard of the series called Yes Minister.
 I do however take anxiety and antidepression meds which help slow my anger while helping me in other ways. Maybe let your doctor know about this so he can help you too.
Title: Re: I cannot determine the best place to put this
Post by: howdidIgethere on June 01, 2022, 11:53:31 am
Thank you for the reply Starfishman.
If only meds were the solution. Thing is if treating me with respect solves "my" problem, seems like its not a me problem.
Title: Re: I cannot determine the best place to put this
Post by: Just Me on June 01, 2022, 03:42:05 pm
It is not a customers business what time a employee steps out. You were out of line by asking. There is nothing wrong with a SSA employee  telling a customer they are shouting or not to shout. You were out of line by shouting. It would probably be helpful if someone you know dealt with SSA for you.  You can give permission over the phone or in person for someone to deal with SSA on your behalf. The permission can be temporary and only for that call or visit   By the way, SSA changes forms. So the form you filled out in the past might have been replaced. You need to show SSA employees the respect you want them to show you.
Title: Re: I cannot determine the best place to put this
Post by: howdidIgethere on June 01, 2022, 04:36:50 pm
You missed the point. She refused to say the time because she was lying to provide cover. There is no matter of whether or not it is my business here. It is a factual detail critically important to the complaint I was trying to make to her. She was very clearly lying.
I'm trying to report one of "her" employees. She successfully did her best to prevent me from doing so. You don't want me to raise my voice then do not abuse me and treat me with the respect I am do. That mean not lying to me or standing on a false principle to hide evidence. 

BTW there is no evidence she actually was the manager as she refused to give me any identifying information such as the number they are supposed to give on every call.

The form did not change. If it had I would have been told it had changed because as you say forms change. And no one would have refused to look up the BNC number to see the one I had. In fact they gave me a very old kind of form. Which I had settled as not the correct one years ago.
And I still need it.


 
Title: Re: I cannot determine the best place to put this
Post by: Just Me on June 01, 2022, 07:31:38 pm
Her refusing to give you that information was not because she was lying. You do not need that info to file a complaint. You also do not need her number information to file the complaint. Sometime we perceive things that are not true. Just because you thought she was being disrespectful and raising her voice. does not mean she was. You need to objectively look at your behavior. Based on what you have said here. You were in a defensive mode when you walked into your local field office. Employees have the right to do everything need to keep them safe.
Title: Re: I cannot determine the best place to put this
Post by: howdidIgethere on June 01, 2022, 10:06:16 pm
Look I was sensitive when I posted and things have gone awry. I accept that I gave a bad impression because I had tunnel vision due to my own stuff.

I do not agree with you Just Me and it is obvious to me you do not like me or want to help me. why are you investing so much energy in tearing down my story and belittling me as if I am some child who doesn't understand the world? I am talking about people who are younger than my grandchild! I know goddam well exactly what they are doing.

You know you can always just not click.
Title: Re: I cannot determine the best place to put this
Post by: howdidIgethere on June 02, 2022, 10:19:42 am
I've figured out some of the problem I am having. Well the source of my upset.
IDK how to get the doc I need yet. Sure wish I could just call give the BNC and have it sent to me like last year.

I am reacting to what comes across as an attack on my personal agency in dealing with SSA and on here.
My insecurities shouldn't even come up in an interaction in which I can identify myself and explicitly state what I need. Never did irw unless I was dealing with a crook. And yet the process seems to require taking away my agency before we even begin discussing what I need.
We never used to hire people who were so insecure and poorly educated or put them up front before they knew the regs so they could answer questions. Let alone hire folks who have no intention of ever learning anything but when is lunch and how do I get a raise/promotion.

The attempts in the responses here to reverse things as if I am the offender and the offender is the victim is just plain nasty and abusive. I've been mostly lucky in my dealings with government in life and I still know awful people get into the civil service. The flat out rejection of that idea here is telling.

I'm not perfect but aint nothing like what has been implied or flat out stated on here.

Title: Re: I cannot determine the best place to put this
Post by: PicoBoulevard on June 02, 2022, 11:00:10 am
Just Me is incredibly helpful to everyone who posts a question Just Me can answer.  Perhaps you may have misinterpreted Just Me's tone because, since we're just writing in sentences on the internet, you cannot see Just Me's face or hear Just Me's voice so you could see Just Me was being sincere.

I can only say that, if I were in your situation, and was frustrated, angry, confused, irritated, and vehemently upset at virtually all individuals whom I interacted with, I would immediately seek out someone to advocate for me to get my points across, who could communicate in such a way that resolutions can be had.  It could be a friend, family member, social worker, social security advocate, non-profit volunteer for the disabled, etc.  But you might find that these people will succeed where you have run into problems in the past.
Title: Re: I cannot determine the best place to put this
Post by: heyjoe on June 02, 2022, 12:39:38 pm
it doesnt matter what anybody says to this person, no matter how helpful you try to be he will accuse you of being nasty and abusive. This might be part of his disability, but that puts him beyond help here. 
Title: Re: I cannot determine the best place to put this
Post by: Just Me on June 02, 2022, 02:17:47 pm
Not sure exactly what you mean by "IDK how to get the doc I need yet." If you have Original Medicare. You do not have to have a referral, unless the individual doctor requires it. If you have a Medicare Advantage Plan. They only pay for doctors that are in their network. You can talk with your PCP about getting an appointment with a specialist. SSA does not have anything to do with doctors.
Title: Re: I cannot determine the best place to put this
Post by: Bonzai on June 02, 2022, 03:17:27 pm
Hmmmmm....

Before I step up on my soapbox, I will state that the name of this board is SSDFacts, not we will make you feel better. 

Fact: Government Agencies are no different than any other organization, in that you will encounter both good and bad employees. 

If you always find yourself in situations where you have been wronged, mistreated, or even yelled at, then what is the common denominator in those situations?  You are. 
Title: Re: I cannot determine the best place to put this
Post by: newdawn on June 02, 2022, 03:37:57 pm
Not sure exactly what you mean by "IDK how to get the doc I need yet." If you have Original Medicare. You do not have to have a referral, unless the individual doctor requires it. If you have a Medicare Advantage Plan. They only pay for doctors that are in their network. You can talk with your PCP about getting an appointment with a specialist. SSA does not have anything to do with doctors.

I think the original poster meant "document", not "doctor". I'm only guessing, but that's how I read it.
Title: Re: I cannot determine the best place to put this
Post by: Just Me on June 02, 2022, 06:29:51 pm
Not sure exactly what you mean by "IDK how to get the doc I need yet." If you have Original Medicare. You do not have to have a referral, unless the individual doctor requires it. If you have a Medicare Advantage Plan. They only pay for doctors that are in their network. You can talk with your PCP about getting an appointment with a specialist. SSA does not have anything to do with doctors.

I think the original poster meant "document", not "doctor". I'm only guessing, but that's how I read it.

Thanks Newdawn.  I guess having a lot of doctor appointments has put doctor/doc in the front of my mind. I apologize for the confusion
Title: Re: I cannot determine the best place to put this
Post by: SteelCity1981 on June 06, 2022, 04:10:21 am
Look I was sensitive when I posted and things have gone awry. I accept that I gave a bad impression because I had tunnel vision due to my own stuff.

I do not agree with you Just Me and it is obvious to me you do not like me or want to help me. why are you investing so much energy in tearing down my story and belittling me as if I am some child who doesn't understand the world? I am talking about people who are younger than my grandchild! I know goddam well exactly what they are doing.

You know you can always just not click.
it's clear that the way you have conducted yourself on here shows everyone that's it's not them. You came in here highly aggressive towards just me and newdawn, who were just trying to help. My sense is, that you came across the same manner towards the social security agent as well, just based on how you conducted yourself on here so far towards the mod and the admin. just me wasn't belittling you, he was being on point, but you took it as if he was attacking you once again. I don't know if you suffer from paranoia, or what, but you have a tendency to jump to conclusions about people and have this false sense that people are out to belittle you, just because they are asking you to clarify something, so that they can understand better what you were trying to say to assist you.