Social Security Disability Facts Forum

Helpful SSDI and SSI Topics => Veteran's Benefits => Topic started by: MikeyB on April 06, 2013, 09:06:34 pm

Title: VA not giving RFCs
Post by: MikeyB on April 06, 2013, 09:06:34 pm
Same here with the rfc

Unfortunately being a Honorably Discharged Veteran under the Veterans Administration care does not warrant them doing those anymore (Even though they are suppose to do them says Congress)
So I was just out of luck at my hearing.
Wonder if the Judge will hold that against me and deny my claim even though I had no control over what the VA does or maybe he knew this was the case dealing with the VA and will just go by my very extensive longitudinal medical records?

Duty, Honor, Country   :Other77:


Sgt. Mikeyb   USAF     :Think01: :SSA03: :Other83:
Title: Re: VA not giving RFCs
Post by: Kahuner on April 07, 2013, 07:05:19 am
MikeyB wrote:

Unfortunately being a Honorably Discharged Veteran under the Veterans Administration care does not warrant them doing those anymore (Even though they are suppose to do them says Congress.

Could you expand on the above?
Title: Re: VA not giving RFCs
Post by: Bonzai on April 07, 2013, 07:21:33 am
It seems that contrary to VA Directive 2008-071, the VA has taken a stand that its providers will no longer be filling out paperwork requested by the veteran for purposes of obtaining Social Security.

At least, that the message being given to veterans at the Memphis VAMC.   :Main02:
Title: Re: VA not giving RFCs
Post by: whatsnext on April 07, 2013, 08:59:12 am
I am also a veteran and my doctors refused to fill them out also every single one of them no matter how much I begged, my attorney even called my primary care dr  and left messages, with no call back. I still won at my hearing last month. The judge didn't say anything about it.  I had mountains of medical records for my SLE and I even had a stroke while waiting for my hearing. Don't worry about it too much.
Title: Re: VA not giving RFCs
Post by: digiview3 on October 01, 2013, 12:11:12 am
VA Psych completed mental RFC form and VA DBQ form upon my request and wife won 100% VA Comp and SSDI...
Title: Re: VA not giving RFCs
Post by: combatcop on February 26, 2016, 10:50:44 pm
Kudos mikeyB.  I was barley able to get any medical statements from my VA Dr for my employment needs...had to houndthem for weeks..
Was told outright NO statement will be given for ssdi needs, one govt agency will not do that for another govt agency
I did find the info that a directive was given to VA to assist veterans with ssdi. I'm currently nervous with hearing coming up next month, all medical records are from VA....also lawyer mentioned approval may be given from the date medical care started...OK, will judge consider the number of months I was on a waiting list prior to first appointment.. I was put on a waiting list due to my moving from FL to Tn.....Tn had no record of me....had I.D. card and in the computer system in FL....figure that!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: VA not giving RFCs
Post by: Hudgins17 on February 26, 2016, 11:24:47 pm
Deleted due to being a duplicate post.
Title: Re: VA not giving RFCs
Post by: Hudgins17 on February 26, 2016, 11:27:15 pm
It seems that contrary to VA Directive 2008-071, the VA has taken a stand that its providers will no longer be filling out paperwork requested by the veteran for purposes of obtaining Social Security.

At least, that the message being given to veterans at the Memphis VAMC.   :Main02:

VHA Directive 2008-71 expired October 31, 2013.  That directive was an amended directive, and they had taken out the verbiage that specifically mentioned getting the medical information specifically for SSA claims.  Instead, the 2008-71 directive spoke more generically about getting medical information regarding functioning.

VHA Directive 2013-002 was published on January 14, 2013.  This directive designated the Disability Benefits Query (DBQ) as “intended for use by disability examiners (including disability contract clinicians), VHA primary care and specialty care providers, and private sector physicians."

Although SSA disability determinations are still not mentioned, it would seem that the DBQs would presumably be available for those purposes.

mikeyB,

Were you looking to have the RFC performed?  Or were you trying to get the documentation of the results of an RFC you had performed?

Reading through these directives, it sounds to me as though these directives address getting medical information on medical care already performed by the VA, rather than directing that the medical test/assessment be performed for the purposes of any disability claim.

I would highly recommend that anyone who is not getting their medical documentation as directed by VHA Directive 2013-002, contact your Congressman for help.  The VA has to get it's ship in order, and until it does, veterans are going to have to be their own advocate and bring this stuff to the attention of Congress critters.

EDIT:  I've had several requests for a link to the newer directive. It is a dot gov link to the PDF of the directive, so I'm going to take a chance and put it here, if the mods don't mind.  If it gets removed, send me a PM and I'll get it to you.

http://www.va.gov/vhapublications/ViewPublication.asp?pub_ID=2856
Title: Re: VA not giving RFCs
Post by: Just Me on February 26, 2016, 11:43:11 pm
combatcop, the time you were on the waiting list will not matter. There had to be medical proof and the is no medical proof prior to when you started receiving care. You also need more than just medical records proving that you were receiving care. The medical records need to state your diagnosis, the level of severity of your impairments, how they affect you ability to function, treatments tried and their outcomes, etc.
Title: Re: VA not giving RFCs
Post by: combatcop on February 27, 2016, 12:07:34 am
..waiting doesn't matter???? Maybe not to you unless that waiting period would cut your monthly benefits you should have received ,by 5-6 months........example you go to your dr tomorrow and your found to have a serious med condition that would qualify you for ssdi , at a later date your found ff from that date of diagnose....... I have the same situation but tomorrow when I go to My dr I'm told come back in 5 months and THEN I get the same diagnose and at a latter date found ff , why should be punished due to the fact I'm a vet and had to wait 5 months to see my dr when you got to see yours the same day
Title: Re: VA not giving RFCs
Post by: Just Me on February 27, 2016, 12:12:26 am
When I said that it didn't matter, I meant that it couldn't be counted. Your Established Onset Date will be when the medical records prove that you have an impairment that prevents you from performing SGA and not before because there is no medical evidence.
Title: Re: VA not giving RFCs
Post by: combatcop on February 27, 2016, 12:56:29 am
Thanks, sorry, to me it does matter and SHOULD be counted...again not my fault I had to wait 5 months for a face to face with Dr...
Wouldn't it matter to anyone in my situation????
Any other vet been in this situation???????
Just wrong!!
Title: Re: VA not giving RFCs
Post by: Helper on February 27, 2016, 04:56:23 am
Did you have a diagnosis/see anyone for care before moving?  Or just after moving & waiting 5 months for an appointment?

If you had a diagnosis/treatment started before moving but then a gap in care due to the VA issues, the ALJ might be willing to overlook gap in treatment - especially if you have been in treatment consistently since that time & the well-publicized issues the VA has had getting people in for care.

However, if you had never seen a provider at all about the symptoms, you are likely going to end up with an amended  onset date.  SSA needs medical evidence of an impairment & you don't have it until you actually were seeing someone.

(Not a Veteran but trying to help answer the question.)
Title: Re: VA not giving RFCs
Post by: Just Me on February 27, 2016, 02:03:21 pm
The way it is viewed is if someone was put on a waiting list, then the condition wasn't severe enough at the time to require medical treatment. There is no medical evidence for that time frame. You must have a diagnosis of a medically determined impairment by an M.D. and there is other medical evidence that is needed such as treatments tried and their outcome, how the impairment affects your ability to funciton, etc. If you had gone to another dr and been treated and then gone to the VA when they got to your name, the situation would have be different.  Although there is no way to be sure what the medical evidence would show.

combatcop, personally I believe that our Veterans should get the highest quality of medical care that there is. I also don't believe that they should have to wait for it.
Title: Re: VA not giving RFCs
Post by: combatcop on February 27, 2016, 05:01:01 pm
Thanks for your reply...sorry for my rant
I guess 5 months isn't much when waiting for hearing more than 2 years...still sucks
Title: Re: VA not giving RFCs
Post by: Different Perspective on February 28, 2016, 08:33:27 pm
(This post was written prior to reading Hudgins17's Reply #7.  For that reason it is somewhat duplicatory.  I would hope that since the link that Hudgins17 and I have used are official government links they would be appropriate. )

"It seems that contrary to VA Directive 2008-071"  Reply #2.

As Hudgins17 indicated, Directive expired 10/31/2013 and replaced by Directive 2012-002 is the replacement.  (See http://www1.va.gov/VHAPUBLICAtIONs/ViewPublication.asp?pub_ID=2856.)

Being a bureaucrat, I look at the technical aspects of the words.  Admittedly, I have not read the CFR authority for this Directive and I see verbiage that suggests "DBQs (Disability Benefit Questionnaires) are a documentation tool that provides sufficient medical evidence needed for disability claims adjudication", I see nothing that directs any medical provider to complete the Disability Benefit Questionnaires.  This seems to be underscored by the statement "If the VHA clinician is not confident completing a DBQ or finds the DBQ requires diagnostic testing not indicated in the history or current symptoms, or would otherwise be inappropriate to complete, the VHA clinician must not complete the DBQ but assist the Veteran in filing a claim for disability benefits. Depending on local processes, this may include directing the Veteran to the Veterans On-Line Application (VONAPP); ..."  I read this to say that anyone who wants to can "pass the buck" by saying they do not feel confident in completing a DBQ.  I may be misreading the whole directive but that is the way I read it. 

The statement "For mental health disability examination requests, it is recommended that the Veteran’s treating provider not complete the disability examination to maintain the integrity of the patient-provider relationship" seems to support my opinion that the completion of DBQs is not mandatory. 
Obviously, some treating sources are more willing to help than others - even to the point of ignoring Policy.

Back to the original post of this thread.  "Wonder if the Judge will hold that against me and deny my claim even though I had no control over what the VA does or maybe he knew this was the case dealing with the VA and will just go by my very extensive longitudinal medical records?"

The ALJ will not hold the lack of a specific form against an applicant, but neither can s/he consider any information not provided.  (For the record, most positive determinations and decisions are made without a Residual Functional Capacity form completed by someone outside of SSA.  Remember, any form completed by a medical source outside of SSA is nothing more, or less, than a Medical Source Opinion that will given no more, or less, weight than SSA feels is supported by the totality of the medical record. 

"DBQs are disease and condition specific...".  (VHA Directive 2013-002 2.b.)  Looking at a few of the individual DBQs forms (http://www.benefits.va.gov/compensation/dbq_ListByDBQFormName.asp) confirms the idea that these forms hint at things that SSA would consider when it prepares a RFC but do not come close to assessing RFC.  They are, in fact, MSOs - nothing more, nothing less.  It will be up to the applicant and his/her representative to show how the medical and non-medical evidence in the records supports certain limits of function and those limitations prevent the performance of Significant Gainful Activity after considering, age, education, and Past Relevant Work.